thmaymuc ([info]thmaymuc) wrote,

womenlovefest, day two: Why do people hate Betty anyway?

DAY 2

So, my today's mission was to figure WHY people hated Betty anyway, because I really have no idea. So I googled a bit, and ofc, found mainly really gross things. I wouldn't really call this meta though, (BECAUSE I AM SO BAD AT IT) it's just me defending Bets a bit.

"[T]his woman (...) is so mind-numbingly spoiled, bitter and uninteresting that we cheer when Don gets his kicks elsewhere. I mean, can you blame him? The only thing worse than being married to a mannequin is being married to a mannequin that complains."

People complain about Betty being boring, doing nothing about her situation but whining and shame the female writers on Mad Men for "not using Betty's potential" and make her break free from her 60ies houswifey life and do something extreme, (but at the same time they call Betty an awful person whenever she reacts to her life in any way). Everybody still seems to think Mad Men was a feminist show (still not true btw) and that, while all the other female characters on the show are oh-so feminist, Betty was an anti-feminist character. What would "using Betty's potential" in a feminist, exciting way even look like anyway? Make her be a single mum, let her move to Manhattan and work in a strip club to make a living, poor and proscribed but finally ~free? Nice, but unrealistic and OOC, it's not even like Betty wouldn't want the house and the husband, she does, she just doesn't want to feel like shit all day.

Betty's issues, her depression, bitterness, her immobility and her failed attempts to change things, are unglamorous and not exactly a whole other life hidden in some drawer, and that's probably why people consider her boring, but they are the most real and least soap-y of the show. I mean, it's hard to relate to anyone on Mad Men anyway, because different decade and all that, but if I would, it'd be Betty, just because she's the most real character and it truly awes me that not everyone feels that way. I do think she's the most complex character on Mad Men and that her storyline, while also being the quietest, is the angriest of all of the female main characters. I wouldn't even say Betty was misunderstood, which many people who defend Betty are saying. It's all pretty clear, I don't think people don't understand it, they probably just find it too realistic and not fun enough for TV.

What I read people complaining about most often were Betty's parenting skills - and lol, I do NOT think Betty was a good mother, but what I find so unfair is that we have no comparisons on the show. We don't see anyone else raising small kids (and lol, no, Don really doesn't count and he is not a better parent than Betty is), her parenting style probably isn't even that controversial for the sixties, which isn't an excuse for bad parenting, but judge considering the circumstances - I mean, no one hates the men on the show as much as they should for being the sexist dicks they are, because "it's the 60ies and times were different". All the excuses people constantly make for other characters on the show just don't seem to apply to Betty, and so Pete can go rape a nanny but Betty cannot slap her daughter.

"In other words, Mad Men can make a rapist weasel like Pete sympathetic, it can admire the toughness of a venal creep like Bobbie. Don Draper is our hot antihero and we root for him to change with the times. And yet each year, Betty inches ever closer to Lee Garner Jr. territory." (by the fucking, sexist geniuses at NYMag btw, "Why do the Mad Men Writers Make Betty Such a Monster")

I also read that Betty making other people (= her children) miserable because of her own issues is the most unforgivable thing anyone has ever done on Mad Men - excuse me, what is it then what Don was doing all the time during their marriage? But whatever, I should stop this, Betty just doesn't have a penis so she'll never have it as easy as Don. However, the big secret, the main reason why people are so nasty to Betty is that she's a mom, a bad one. They don't hate her for being a bad person but an, according to today's sensibilities, bad mom. The viewership doesn't look at her as woman or even as flawed person, but as mother, so everything that might motivate, explain or excuse her behavior is good for nothing now; she's damaging the most important, the holy, the child. There's no place for mistakes or any redeeming quality that'd be good enough to make up for them. In fandom Betty's motherhood suppresses her as character just as much as the men do on the show. And it's not even like Betty was neglecting these kids - it's about her not being kind or warm enough; not "mommy"-like. Basically: Everyone who hates on Betty just has unresolved mommy issues.

TL;DR: Betty is flawfree, deal with it.

Today's Scene:

"That's desperate." (2.06)

I don't exactly love this scene, it mainly makes me angry. One barely ever sees better how insecure and worthless he made her feel. Don, you no-good prick, go screw some other woman and let Betty wear a bikinis if she wants to! And she loves that damn thing so much, she wears it for breakfast! And looks gorgeous in it! She's so excited about it! And then Don just ruins it, that stupid man. I always hated when he husbands her, I am always all "HOW DARE YOU, CHEATER" about it. It was even worse when he got jealous, HDU DRAPER, HDU.

OT, but as I used a cap of it as banner, "Souvenir" always makes me SO SAD for Betty, I cry for her every time I watch it, she becomes that other woman, that woman she used to be or could have been, the kind of woman Don cheats on her with, and then the trip is over and it's JUST GONE and nothing's left of it but that fucking souvenir. THE SADDEST.
Tags: flawless, meme, that's sexist!, this looks shopped, tv: mad men, womenlovefest

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  • 22 comments

[info]matitablu

September 10 2011, 23:45:11 UTC 8 months ago

Here via [info]womenlovefest! I don't have much to add because these are pretty much my thoughts on Betty as well. And while I maybe wouldn't have made a blanket statement on all the Betty haters having mommy issues, well... the way a lot of people in fandom reacted to Faye's lack of mothering skills (how dares she just want to be with Don and not instantly look after his kids for him!) spoke volumes. Speaking from experience from other fandom, mother characters - or better, female characters who also happen to be mothers - are subject to a level of scrutiny that is unparalleled, I think. And it is pretty enraging.

I always hated when he husbands her, I am always all "HOW DARE YOU, CHEATER" about it. It was even worse when he got jealous, HDU DRAPER, HDU.
Should we talk about that time he called her a whore? Because I think I never felt like punching a hole through my computer screen as much as that time, honest. Though the Heineken episode is a close second.

[info]thmaymuc

September 14 2011, 01:23:24 UTC 8 months ago

I definitely agree, fandom (society in general) always is most unforgiving of bad mothers (and as one can see in Faye's case, they don't even have to be actual mothers, duh, being a woman apparently already qualifies you for that), it is really irritating.

The Heineken episode was the worst, the part when he lies to her face about twenty times and then acts like she was crazy makes me so mad every single time. Thanks for commenting, so glad you enjoyed, and so glad you also still love Bets, we are so little.

[info]margottenenbaum

September 11 2011, 00:24:00 UTC 8 months ago

Girl, you are totally awesome at meta! This is so good! I agree with everything you are saying and think it is all completely, completely true. And therefore I have nothing good to add, because you said it all.

The bikini scene! Gahh, Betty. She looked so cute and she was so happy! It was so yellow! Don, why are you harshing her fucking buzz when you do not even come home half the time?

And srsly, "Souvenir."

[info]thmaymuc

September 14 2011, 01:33:42 UTC 8 months ago

Yay, thank you! And lol aw, I don't just say that, it's just that I confuse myself A LOT, "what the hell am I even trying to say" is such a bad feeling to have about meta!

IKR? That horrible, horrible man. And then people call her a killjoy, HE KILLS ALL HER JOY. Betty had so many moments of cute and happy during S1 and 2, but Don mostly shut them down, it's so sad.

[info]lookinglassgirl

September 11 2011, 00:44:01 UTC 8 months ago

I really enjoyed your meta! (Even though I'm 3 seasons behind on Mad Men.) I do find that in general male characters get away with so much while female characters are criticized for the same behavior. What you said about Betty being a mother rings so true for me. And slightly OT but I really hate the whole dichotomy of "bad mother" versus "good mother" that happens on a lot of TV shows.

[info]thmaymuc

September 14 2011, 01:54:57 UTC 8 months ago

Ohhh, thank you so much, so glad you liked it (and so honoured you bothered reading in first place!)
Yes, I am not even surprised that Betty gets an all different treatment than the male characters on the show, it's always like that, but it's so sad that she also "loses" compared to the other female mains because she's a mother. And ugh yeah, society is so weird about mothers anyway.

[info]vialethe

September 11 2011, 01:24:04 UTC 8 months ago

Ooh, that scene. I never hated Don more than I did at that moment, I don't think. And generally I love him in spite of his being a total dickbag.

It's my opinion that people hate Betty because the writers want us to; MM is supposed to be Don's story (or, arguably, Peggy's), and as such we're not supposed to feel a ton of sympathy for Betty, even when Don's doing horrendous things to her. Since he's so unsympathetic himself, Betty has to be even more so, so that most of the audience doesn't end up hating the main character.

I do feel terrible for her though, since even if you do believe she's flawed, none of those flaws are possibly her fault. She's a bad mother? Look at her own parents, she clearly didn't have much of an example. She's boring and spoiled and doesn't know what she wants? Because no one ever told her she could want anything more than being a wife and mother! The tragedy of Betty, for me, is that she's clearly a woman who wasn't meant to be a mom and housewife, but had no idea she could possibly be, or even want to be, anything else.

tl;dr, Oh, Betty.

[info]thmaymuc

September 14 2011, 02:06:06 UTC 8 months ago

Ugh, Don had so many moments of major assholery during their marriage (I mean, even if you don't count the cheating and false identy and never-being-there), that one time he totally freaked out because he claimed Betty was flirting with Roger? WHAT, DON.

Aw, I know many people think that, but I actually never felt like the show wanted me to hate Betty, just that it's awfully accurate and realistic in its portrayal of her. I never saw Betty as some sort of villain in Mad Men (or Dan as the good guy, for that matter, even though I do like him) or thought that Betty and Don were opponents and I really do not think that's the story the show is trying to tell. I always thought Betty was very rootable for, but that didn't mean I didn't root for Don too, I just wanted everyone to stop being miserable.

IKR? Betty is such a sad, sad character.

[info]vialethe

September 14 2011, 04:45:29 UTC 8 months ago

Argh I forgot about that moment. Wtf, Don, indeed. Damn Jon Hamm's hotness for making me forget what a dick his character really is.

I agree that Betty isn't meant to be a villain exactly, and certainly Don isn't meant to be a good guy, no! I just think it helps with the audience not totally turning on Don if Betty's behavior is even more exaggerated and nasty than it has to be, you know?

I definitely swung back around to rooting for Betty in the last episode of last season, because she is still so sad and confused and hopeless. This show delights in making everyone miserable, yet I keep on watching...

[info]caitie

September 11 2011, 02:22:59 UTC 8 months ago

her storyline, while also being the quietest, is the angriest of all of the female main characters

IAAAAA.

BECAUSE I AM SO BAD AT IT

FALSE.

[info]thmaymuc

September 14 2011, 02:07:58 UTC 8 months ago

THANK YOU. IT'S JUST SO HARD WITH PEOPLE LIKE YOU ON MY F-LIST, YOU KNOW? Almost makes me feel inferior!

So glad you read all that even though you aren't caught of with the show, btw! (Why aren't you? YOU SHOULD BE CAUGHT UP, I know it's hard to get into, but it's so good!)

[info]spankmypirate

September 11 2011, 09:30:48 UTC 8 months ago

I love this post! ♥

However, the big secret, the main reason why people are so nasty to Betty is that she's a mom, a bad one. They don't hate her for being a bad person but an, according to today's sensibilities, bad mom.

Exactly. I think you hit the nail on the head. If there is one thing that fandom and, in fact, society in general, can't forgive a woman for, it's being a bad mother. I'm actually going to dedicate a post about Betty's mother issues for my second day of this meme, because I find it so interesting and alarming how fans respond to Betty's parenting faults and manage to excuse away Don's flaws as a father. Because he is ALSO a shitty parent yet somehow he manages to get away with it.

[info]thmaymuc

September 14 2011, 02:10:50 UTC 8 months ago

Thaanks, so glad you like it!

IKR? It's really so bothersome, people hate Betty for being a bad mom and for being the ~wrong kind of angry~, and then they are all ~FEMINIST SPIRIT~, it infuriates me.
Ugh, of course Don gets away with it, he does with everything, it's all so very unfair.

[info]12_12_12

September 11 2011, 13:03:58 UTC 8 months ago

I'm not a regular viewer of this show, but I love this meta (and you are not bad at meta! I love your analytical posts!) I think you're so right about the real, underlying reasons for people being hypercritical of Betty and finding her storylines "boring". Only certain kinds of pain are acceptable for female characters (i.e. when they're pining over men, or coaching men through *their* issues, or feeling sad because their man is sad, or if it's some kind of torture!porn that satisfies misogynistic instincts, or...you see my point.) Women are so rarely allowed to be sad/depressed/angry purely for themselves. Whereas Don can sit around being a pathetic cheating ass endlessly pontificating about How Hard His Life Is and everyone is all, "Oh, poor woobie." It's rage-inducing.

the kind of woman Don cheats on her with

There's so MUCH packed into just this one phrase, I just...*sadface*

I mean, no one hates the men on the show as much as they should for being the sexist dicks they are

I think I do. Well, I hate and despise all the male characters on the show, particularly Don. xD

I also don't think Mad Men is a feminist show, necessarily (I wouldn't apply that term to ANY show on TV ever, the only one that even comes close for me is early-season E.R. and even that had issues.) But I do think it's one of the few shows I've found that actually deals with women in the workplace realistically--far more so than a lot of shows set in the modern day. In fact, I wonder if it's the false distance created by the "it's the 60's" excuse that makes it easier for the writers to be honest about some things, b/c IMO more has stayed the same since then, than has changed.

[info]thmaymuc

September 14 2011, 02:20:02 UTC 8 months ago

I'm so very honoured you like it, you are the queen of meta and all that! (And thanks, it's just that I am so BLAH with words, like, my own sentences confuse me, such bad qualifications for writing meta!) And I am totally with you, while I don't consider Mad Men a "feminist show" I really do enjoy their writing for female characters and the places they go with them; and I also do think all of it is very close to today and that the writers are aware of that.

I actually found some very good meta about Betty that hits the nail on the head: We all said we wanted Betty to get in touch with her anger, but we expected that anger to look admirable and positive and feminist. We didn’t consider that it might just be anger. That she might just not bother to think about how she was serving the world or women or the audience when she finally got to the point of rage. Truest. Shit. Ever. It's so weird that it only ever seem to be females that can be the "wrong kind" of angry, would never happen to a male character, their anger apparently always is all find and dandy.

[info]angerfish

September 11 2011, 23:01:14 UTC 8 months ago

I looooove this meta. <333 I would never claim Betty is perfect but I do wish she was afforded the same understanding by fandom that other characters get.

[info]thmaymuc

September 14 2011, 02:21:41 UTC 8 months ago

Thanks, so glad you like it! And ikr? I never understand all the hate Betty gets, we've seen her since S1 and know why she's at the place she is right now, I just don't know why every character on this show but her has a free pass for every horrible thing they do.

[info]fallen_woman

September 13 2011, 06:47:02 UTC 8 months ago

I love this breakdown of the vitriol directed at Betty, who is definitely the most hated female character on the show. Unfairly so. The "Souvenir" episode completely broke my heart -- she's so vibrant, confident and witty in Rome, effortlessly bantering with the Italian guys ("you're not a gentleman" is one of the drollest responses I've ever seen to an unwanted come-on) and Don alike. And then she comes back home and she gets put in that little housewife box, with nothing but a charm to remember.

[info]thmaymuc

September 14 2011, 02:28:03 UTC 8 months ago

Thank you! I'm really so thrilled you like it.
Yess, Souvenir really is one of the saddest episodes for Betty. I always wonder what Betty and Don were like together before the kids and before the suburb, I imagine it was all a lot like they were in Rome. Which makes Souvenir even sadder.

[info]ms_mmelissa

September 15 2011, 01:28:38 UTC 8 months ago

I ♥ this post so much. I really hate the way the fandom in general seems to loathe Betty all the while glossing over the abuse and rape perpetuated by characters they love (like Don and Pete). It's like a mini-oasis of rational thought here!

it's about her not being kind or warm enough; not "mommy"-like.

Nail on head. It's really grotesque the way Betty gets ripped apart for not being the perfect mother. I remember reading comments last season where people were hoping that Sally could go live with Don away from that "monster" Betty. And this was when he was in his hard-core alcoholic blacking-out phase.

I sometimes think that even the writers don't quite "get" Betty. Matt Weiner has gone on the record several times describing Betty as a child, which I find kind of creepy and disturbing. Her reactions may sometimes be described as childish (although I personally wouldn't call them so), but the way Weiner & co pushed that theme last season, even going so far as to duplicate a shot of Sally crying on her bed with Betty crying on Sally's bed, was kind of gross. Betty is a wonderful, interesting, complex character and I wish more people appreciated that.

[info]themis

September 22 2011, 17:21:58 UTC 7 months ago

I came here from [info]caitie's lj, and I just wanted to say thanks for writing this! I only recently watch MM all the way through for the first time, but even when I wasn't watching it I would read a lot about the way other people reacted to the show. The way people discuss Betty has always always always rubbed me the wrong way - they clearly let their own issues get in the way of compassion and understanding. And also, as you point out, it's so easy to say "but Betty has all these options/privileges" and that's true? But also very much not the case, that's not her life as she lives it. No one is there to help her - just to yell at her when she messes up (which is always).

[info]bellesbells

September 23 2011, 06:51:00 UTC 7 months ago

I heart this entire post.

But there's a part of me that blames the viewers who hate Betty more than the show not giving Betty a well rounded showcase (which I'm not saying they are, but I think they give her a somewhat adequate shot, as much as they can anyway, given Betty's so far removed, especially in S4, from the center stage SCDP of the show and pretty much most of the other main characters in the show. But I mean, I watch the show, and I feel for Betty as much as I do some of the other characters based on how the show portrays her. I don't think Betty is flawfree - everyone on that show has their set of issues - but I find her to be a sympathetic one. So the Betty hate makes me angry.)

I'm watching Breaking Bad now, and it's ridiculous the amount of hate Skyler gets on comments and forum posts when I find her arc and character to be well written and interesting on the part of the writers and the show. They're showing the good and bad sides to her like they do with all the other characters. So, sometimes I wonder if sometimes it's the viewers who tend to be a lot less forgiving with female characters than male ones, especially concerning flaws/questionable actions. Like, a guy could do something horrific and still be a sympathetic character, yet if a girl does something half as bad, suddenly she's unlikable and viewers don't like her.
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